The Politics Thread

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RB
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby RB » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:28 pm

I love how Jimmy Crankie is saying the SNP will vote no when the supreme court already said nobody gives a fuck what devolved Governments think.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Ekona » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:54 pm

I can only imagine the look on her face when she found that out :D

She can fuck right off, vote no if you like love, but you're coming out with the rest of us.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Mr.Clark » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:21 pm

Which will trigger a second independence referendum as the Scots voted overall to stay in the EU, and having a bunch of English bastards tell them they're going to have to leave isn't going to sit well.

I'm behind the Lib Dems on this - if the Govt negotiates a "Europe gets to stick it up our arse" deal, the people absolutely should get to decide "that's not the Brexit I voted for".

But fuck Corbyn. What's the point of being in opposition if you're going to rubber stamp a bill from the government that you hadn't even seen?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Ekona » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:34 pm

1. No IndyRef2 as May won't let her, and the Scots need to realise it was a national vote, not a local one.
2. Brexit meant out. Out of everything. We won't get fucked though, May would probably quite like another term at the top table and delivering a crappy result won't help anyone. It won't help the EU to punish us for leaving either. It'll all be fine, just wait and see. The people had their chance to vote once, and this is why referendums are a really silly idea. I voted Remain, remember.
3. Corbyn :lol: Even his whips aren't obeying the whip! Never have I ever seen a more useless leader of a political party in this country. The Labour MPs really need to split and start a credible party, and soon.

We need to leave, and leave promptly. Desperately hanging on and hoping for the best isn't going to help anyone: People need to know what kind of situation we're going to be left with so they can plan for it. Hesitation and faffing helps no-one. I'd rather a slightly worse exit deal in 2 years than I would a slightly better one in 5 years.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby RB » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:34 pm

Scotland didn't get a vote in the EU referendum, the people did and the people voted to leave. If the SNP call a second referendum it will probably be a no just like the first because they are fucked on their own and they know it.

I think Corbyn has finally grown some balls. He's hated the EU since its inception and has finally nailed his colours to the flagpole.

The time for people to oppose brexit, besides actually voting no instead of staying in bed then claiming you voted no and getting all whiney, is at the commons vote on the final deal.
The people voted out, triggering Article 50 should be a formality and anyone who tries to stop it is an undemocratic cunt.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Ekona » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:42 pm

Commons vote will be a no-brainer with a Tory majority, I can't see it not getting passed regardless.

It would, however, be nice if the negotiating team invited the leaders of the main parties to be involved in the discussions. Until they stop bickering at the Evil Tories like children though, never going to happen.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Mr.Clark » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:05 pm

Ekona wrote:1. No IndyRef2 as May won't let her, and the Scots need to realise it was a national vote, not a local one.
Yeah, that sounds like the Scots we all know and love... ;)
Ekona wrote:2. Brexit meant out. Out of everything. We won't get fucked though, May would probably quite like another term at the top table and delivering a crappy result won't help anyone. It won't help the EU to punish us for leaving either. It'll all be fine, just wait and see. The people had their chance to vote once, and this is why referendums are a really silly idea. I voted Remain, remember.
I'll hold you to that...

Ekona wrote:We need to leave, and leave promptly. Desperately hanging on and hoping for the best isn't going to help anyone: People need to know what kind of situation we're going to be left with so they can plan for it. Hesitation and faffing helps no-one. I'd rather a slightly worse exit deal in 2 years than I would a slightly better one in 5 years.

Can't entirely disagree with that. But. It still grates. "We" voted Leave based almost completely on lies. Lies about immigration, lies about the NHS. Lies about trade deals. It's galling.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby RB » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:39 pm

Not everyone who voted to leave did so based on the hype in the run up to the referendum. A lot of us are actually intelligent, free thinking individuals who simply want an end to a failed old world experiment.

Also, regarding trade deals, it does seem that many countries are clamouring to get one.

Remember too that the remain bullshit truck dumped a whole load of crap about all kinds of armageddon that has not come to pass at all.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Ekona » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:01 pm

Agreed, a lot of the Remain comments from the powers that be were utter lies too. Immediate economy collapse, emergency budget with higher taxes, back of the queue with the US etc.

Both sides were as bad as each other.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Joe » Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:10 pm

Thought this was an interesting look at the issue of cheap EU labour and how much we currently rely on it - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -brexiters

Watch the video if you have a few minutes. A lot of the City talk at the moment is about securing trade agreements that leverage the strength of UK fintech rather than goods/manufacturing etc but there's very little discussion about the repercussions of gutting the infrastructure that our consumerist culture currently rests on.

I don't think there any many people left who haven't accepted that Brexit is happening. I do think that many are keen for it to "just happen" already who still don't have the slightest clue what post-EU Britain looks like, and who don't seem to care.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Ekona » Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:32 pm

Interesting stuff, thanks Joe.


I still believe the end result after everything will be much the same as it was before, just that everything will cost us more. We certainly won't be deporting anyone, any more than Spain will kick out the Brits living on the Costa Del Sol: They'll be an agreement where every one can stay where they are as of X date (probably the day we trigger A50, to stop a flood of people either way if a future date is given). Working at the airport means I'm as immersed in EU workers as much as anyone, so I know just how important cheap foreign labour is to the economy. We'll still need those people, so we'll either make visas easy to get (which is fine, even a one page form is better than the free for all we have now) or simply incentivise (is that even a word?!) people to come over.

Whatever happens, this will cost everyone more in the short term (10-20 years). That, along with the drive of the Living Wage, is just going to bump up the end cost of everything for everyone. That's small fry though in comparison to the money that flows through the markets, which is why I'm desperate for everything to get a move on and stuff to get sorted quickly so the markets have confidence in the future. Whether they're right or wrong is irrelevant, it's just believing they know what's going to happen that will help us out.

Tbh, ultimately I don't really care what post-Brexit UK looks like. I'll be worse off, and whilst I agree that the EU ruling bodies are a festering mess of faffery I also feel there's no way to influence anything if you're on the outside. That was Cameron's real failing, in that he simply didn't believe that we'd vote to leave so didn't push anywhere near hard enough. Can't say I blame him mind, I didn't really think we would either!


The longer it takes, the more we spend on lawyers and the shakier the markets. That cannot be a good thing for anyone. I genuinely fail to work out why everyone/social media thinks that the current Government is going to give us a crap deal: Certainly I have more faith in a Tory government to deliver a strong deal than a Labour one, and either way if it was a crap deal then they won't be in power for very long regardless of Blue or Red. May has a real opportunity here to become the next PM for the next 10 years, as the SNP rule Scotland and there is no credible opposition in a hugely divided Labour party with a weak leader. To do that she's going to have to make sure she doesn't start letting the voters down, as enough protest votes will sway things quickly against her.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Joe » Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:59 pm

I expect Cameron didn't believe Leave would win because he'd just spent 3 years negotiating some of the biggest reforms the EU had ever seen in a deal that would have made the UK massively better off without even leaving the union - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05 ... ually-got/

Johnson, Farage, Gove et al would have known they'd have a tough time trying to convince voters the UK would be able to find a better deal than that outside of the EU, so they didn't even bother. Instead the Leave campaign went full Britannia and painted a rosy backwards-looking dreamview of post-EU Britain that evaporated immediately following the referendum.

Remain's primary failing was that they believed they'd be campaigning on a level playing field. Honestly, it's no wonder Cameron ragequit the day after the result.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Ekona » Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:15 pm

I blame people like my Dad. Every time we'd have a debate about the vote I'd counter every single argument he made, to which he'd agree with, and then he went and voted Leave anyway.

Now his holidays to his house in Florida are costing him significantly more, and I bet he doesn't feel quite so smug now :lol:
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Joe » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:28 am

Joe wrote:Johnson, Farage, Gove et al would have known they'd have a tough time trying to convince voters the UK would be able to find a better deal than that outside of the EU, so they didn't even bother. Instead the Leave campaign went full Britannia and painted a rosy backwards-looking dreamview of post-EU Britain that evaporated immediately following the referendum.


Dominic Cummings, Vote Leave Director wrote:Pundits and MPs kept saying ‘why isn’t Leave arguing about the economy and living standards’. They did not realise that for millions of people, £350m/NHS was about the economy and living standards – that’s why it was so effective. It was clearly the most effective argument not only with the crucial swing fifth but with almost every demographic. Even with UKIP voters it was level-pegging with immigration. Would we have won without immigration? No. Would we have won without £350m/NHS? All our research and the close result strongly suggests No. Would we have won by spending our time talking about trade and the Single Market? No way.


via http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/do ... endum-won/

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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Joe » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:37 am

Also from that post:

Some people now claim this was cynical and we never intended to spend more on the NHS. Wrong. Boris and Gove were agreed and determined to do exactly this. On the morning of 24 June they both came into HQ. In the tiny ‘operations room’ amid beer cans, champagne bottles, and general bedlam I said to Boris – on day one of being PM you should immediately announce the extra £100 million per week for the NHS [the specific pledge we’d made] is starting today and more will be coming – you should start off by being unusual, a political who actually delivers what they promise. ‘Absolutely. ABSOLUTELY. We MUST do this, no question, we’ll park our tanks EVERYWHERE’ he said. Gove strongly agreed


Yesterday Boris voted against the amendment to Article 50 Bill to give the NHS that money.


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