The Politics Thread

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Mr.Clark
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Mr.Clark » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:18 am

RB wrote:You just can't win. Remainers wanted a general election so they could try and derail brexit. Now they have one, they're whining because there's no opposition.
You could make the argument that a political system without opposition isn't actually democracy, it's a one party state.

Corbyn's only real shot at this is getting in a coalition with the Lib Dems and maybe the Greens, and trying for a "we're going to cancel Brexit" manifesto. Anything else hands the country back to the Conservatives for five more years. Potentially with a supermajority.

Plus, if he does that and still loses, it's basically a discount second Brexit and the Leavers still win.

That said, I am also interested in how the Scots vote. If they go 100% SNP, they might very well go for a second IndyRef and win it. Alternatively, Sturgeon could actually lose some seats (not sure who to - they clearly don't like the Conservatives that much) and an independence isn't as cut and dried as it sounds.

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Ekona
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Ekona » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:03 am

Any party or coalition that tries to cancel Brexit now should be lined up and shot. That's about as treacherous a policy change as I've witnessed in my lifetime.

By all means debate how you would Brexit, but not Brexit itself.
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Mr.Clark
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Mr.Clark » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:33 pm

Honestly not sure why Corbyn voted to allow the election. He can't seriously think he can win, can he?

Presumably the reason May called it now is because she thinks that Labour had a decent chance of getting rid of Corbyn before the next scheduled GE and replacing him with someone who might actually challange her...

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RB
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby RB » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:42 pm

I think he wants to run away and hide like the scared pussy he is but he has too much pride to quit like he should, so he's committing suicide by election.
A slight majority of a statistically worthless sample size agree.

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Ekona
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Ekona » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:36 pm

Bet he still won't quit, even if Labour get wiped out.

Personally I think Labour will do better than predicted, but the LD will gain any lost Lab seats.
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Ekona
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Ekona » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:12 pm

Strong & stable.


FFS give it a bloody rest, it's like the worst catchphrase ever. PR department needs shooting.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby siteguru » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:01 pm

Image

Strong and Stable?


;)

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Ekona
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Ekona » Mon May 01, 2017 8:22 am

Oh god :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Joe » Thu May 04, 2017 11:56 am

RB wrote:I actually have a bit more respect for her now. She can clearly see that Jeremy Corbyn is a worthless weakling, leading a shower of shit and has taken the correct action of putting the fucking boot in like a strong leader should.

Maybe I'm misreading the whole situation, but I'm not convinced calling a snap election and running around the country campaigning is the best use of her time immediately after triggering article 50. If Corbyn isn't a threat, why call an election at all? Isn't there something else looming that she should be concerned about?

Or is it that endlessly repeating "strong and stable" while stoking anti-EU fervour by accusing MEPs of ganging up on poor old Britannia and trying to sabotage this election is exactly the kind of Trumpian, populist nonsense May enjoys more than actually committing to the job she's supposed to be doing?

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Ekona
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Ekona » Thu May 04, 2017 12:39 pm

It's politics. If you can put the boot in then you do, just to make yourself look better. 'Twas ever thus, and ever thus shall be.

I'm a fan of May, but even I think she made the wrong call here. Not politically, as clearly if you can gain an advantage and a larger majority then you should do, but in terms of what's right to do right now I don't think it's the correct decision.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Joe » Thu May 04, 2017 3:40 pm

Yeah it's politics, and it's frustrating to watch. Putting the boot in is fine, but when you're already in power and about to embark on something as important as taking the country out of the EU, calling an election just to reinforce your domestic position seems childish and obsessive. There's no tactical advantage to gain. In the same way Trump kept claiming the US election was rigged - even after winning - because he didn't get the majority vote, most people surely just want her to get the fuck on with it?

If there's even a shred of truth in this then May has far bigger problems right now than squashing Corbyn, like the fact that she's getting high off her own supply of cut-price nationalism and suffering embarrassing delusions about having any kind of leverage in the EU.

Mind you, there's a suggestion the Tory expenses investigation is forcing her hand in calling the election, to some extent. Securing a strong mandate through a quick election victory will go a long way to distract from the shit being stirred up by the Electoral Commission and increase her government's perilously slim majority.

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Ekona
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Ekona » Thu May 04, 2017 3:55 pm

Sorry, but I don't see that article as anything other than propaganda produced on the behalf of Juncker himself. Let's assume the content is a correct translation (no way to prove otherwise, German's not a particularly hard language to translate either), it's written so much in the positive for Juncker and Merkel that I just cannot take it seriously. Juncker randomly having all those documents casually to hand whilst at dinner? Give me a break.

It's as disruptive and destructive as anything May has had to say this week (which I don't think was particularly helpful either), and serves neither side well. Is there any shock that the EU wants to punish the UK for leaving? No. Is there any shock that the UK wants to have cake and munch happily? Of course not. Both sides will go through periods of claiming positivity and being friends, to sniping over the trenches. That's politics and money for you, and here they're debating both sides so it'll just be intensified.

May has tremendous leverage against the EU, in the form of finances more than anything. The EU is going to miss our money massively, and they know it. On the flip side the EU know we're desperate for single market access, so will use that to squeeze every drop out of us to fill their budgets. End result? The same as we have now, but with us paying more money in exchange for no free movement. Guarantee it. There's be 3-6 months of posturing on both sides at the table, and then the big nobs will get the hump and let the civil servants who actually do the proper work sort everything out whilst they claim credit for it.
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RB
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby RB » Thu May 04, 2017 4:06 pm

As an aside, I think when they get to trade negotiations, they may find that big businesses don't care.
I know that the at least three big players in two industries that straddle the UK and the EU have already found some existing channels of trade that bypass any deal the UK gets with no penalty.
I'm pretty sure others will at least be looking at something similar.
Business always finds the path of least resistance and greatest profit and it seems nobody is waiting for politicians to sort their shit out.
A slight majority of a statistically worthless sample size agree.

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Ekona
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Ekona » Fri May 05, 2017 10:09 am

I take it we all voted yesterday?

I went with our local UKIP guy, only after a last minute decision by the Tory lady to encourage speed limit reductions so she wasn't getting my vote. In hindsight I wish I'd spoilt the paper instead, but you live and learn. No difference was made anyway, as the Tories took the seat with 2604 votes (2nd place Labour had 871 in comparison). BNP guy still managed a scary 23 votes. Turnout was just under 30%, which sounds about right as the local hall was like a ghost town.

Looking positive so far for the Tories nationwide, although I'm surprised that the LDs didn't do better as I expected them to gobble up many a Labour vote. Still many councils to declare though, so could (and I suspect will) change rapidly.
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RB
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby RB » Fri May 05, 2017 11:04 am

I voted. I almost gave Labour a pity vote as they stand no chance here but didn't. It's nice that we've eradicated UKIP from Lincolnshire now.
A slight majority of a statistically worthless sample size agree.


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