Gun Control and Rights

Discussion over more serious issues and topics
Joe
Posts: 5098
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:40 pm

Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby Joe » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:16 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-20723910

Same day as the Sandy Hook shooting.

22 injuries. No deaths.

User avatar
Ekona
Posts: 16636
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:24 pm
Tag: Official member of the RB Anti Facist Party est. 2009
Location: Braintree, innit

Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby Ekona » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:33 pm

Scary.

Someone needs to do some serious reseach into why this kind of incident (mass attacks with guns or knives) is happening more frequently these days. Is it just being reported more? I doubt it, although I am open to the idea. I know there's more people around which I would guess increases the probability of something happening, but attacking kids just isn't something that normal person would ever consider.
"Chav kids are like sand people. They're easily startled but they'll be back, and in greater numbers."

Joe
Posts: 5098
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:40 pm

Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby Joe » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:20 pm

My point was more to do with this idea that "if we melted down all the guns, these nutcases would use knives or bombs or pointy sticks". The incident in China quite plainly shows this to be true, but also illustrates the difference between an attack with an automatic weapon and an attack with a knife. 26 deaths vs 22 injuries. Both heinous crimes, but one far deadlier than the other.

Mr.Clark
Posts: 4435
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:57 am

Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby Mr.Clark » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:31 am

RB wrote:He can't be re-elected again anyway but he could get assassinated.
As horrible as things like these are there's nothing you can do to stop them. If we melted down all the guns, these nutcases would use knives or bombs or pointy sticks.

The same day that the American thing happened, a guy went into a school in China and attacked 22 kids with a knife.

None of the Chinese children died.

Guns don't kill people, people do. But apparently the guns really help.


Remember, their vaunted "right to arm bears" was written in the days when if you were good with guns, you could get off 4 musket shots per minute. Any modern double barrel shotgun is better than that, let alone pistols or assault weapons.

Here's a nice article about why the second amendment is bullshit these days anyway.
http://www.ericgarland.co/2012/12/14/yo ... bodys-ass/

The whole American mentality about guns is just wrong, plain and simple. Australia banned guns in about '96. They've had no mass shootings* since. We banned guns after Dunblane. We've had no mass shootings since. In the last 50 years, of the worst 25 shootings, 15 were in America. The next most popular country? Finland. With two.

The most hardcore gun nuts in the US are currently saying it wouldn't have happened if the teachers had been armed.

For. Fucks. Sake.

The solution to bad people with guns is, apparently, to give out EVEN MORE GUNS.

Columbine was in 1999. There have apparently been over 30 school shootings since then. But ONE GUY fails to get a shoe bomb to go off on a plane, and everyone has to take off their shoes in airports.

Stop the world. I want to get off.


*EDIT: None in schools, anyway. There was Derrick Bird in Cumbria in 2010. Who used guns he legally owned and had licenses for. So yeah, the licensing system here totally worked.

User avatar
RB
Posts: 10694
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:27 pm

Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby RB » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:04 am

Just because nobody died in the Chinese knife attack doesn't mean lives weren't ruined. Knife wounds leave horrific permanent injuries.

I'm not saying guns are less lethal but if people want to kill people, they will do it by any means.

If you want to ban something that kills the most people, try cars.

As a long time gun owner it fucks me right off when gun owners get demonised every time a mental person uses a gun in a crime. Mostly because in this country gun owners are in the minority and in this country minorities are treated like shit.

People never scream for the things they enjoy to be banned when they are misused.
A slight majority of a statistically worthless sample size agree.

Joe
Posts: 5098
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:40 pm

Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby Joe » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:45 am

RB wrote:Just because nobody died in the Chinese knife attack doesn't mean lives weren't ruined. Knife wounds leave horrific permanent injuries.
No shit? Perhaps we should ask the Chinese kids if they want to trade places with the dead American ones?

RB wrote:I'm not saying guns are less lethal but if people want to kill people, they will do it by any means.
So you're saying the Chinese dude didn't have it in him to kill those kids? He just fancied going on a maiming spree? And I suppose if he'd had a gun he'd just have shot them in the knees? Cool, ok then. We should probably start thinking about legalising personal ownership of biological weapons and nuclear devices then. They kill less people than guns, and they're basically harmless in responsible hands. It's only the crazy people we need to worry about, and if they really want to kill they'll find a way to do so regardless.

RB wrote:If you want to ban something that kills the most people, try cars.

I want to end mass murder, a purpose automatic weapons are designed to facilitate. Cars are designed for personal transportation and are used as such by millions of people. If the same volume of people were using machine guns for their intended purpose (which, surprisingly, is not looking at them in glass cases) then you're welcome to try playing the numbers game and see where it gets you.

RB wrote:As a long time gun owner it fucks me right off when gun owners get demonised every time a mental person uses a gun in a crime. Mostly because in this country gun owners are in the minority and in this country minorities are treated like shit.

I don't give two shits about gun owners, the same as I don't care for smokers. It's the companies that feed their desires and fears and fucking lie to them and sell them death every single day who really fuck me off. You'd assume big corporations selling dangerous automatic weapons to the public would use responsible advertising, focusing on the quality of the product or the ease of use, or even the personal security it offers, or the efficiency of the design? They certainly wouldn't play on your vanity and call you a fucking pussy for failing to arm yourself with their weapons, right? Wrong.

RB wrote:People never scream for the things they enjoy to be banned when they are misused.

Seems to me like there was no "misuse" at play in Sandy Hook. The guy took a device designed for mass murder and committed mass murder with it. Mission fucking accomplished.

User avatar
RB
Posts: 10694
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:27 pm

Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby RB » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:18 pm

Impasse.
A slight majority of a statistically worthless sample size agree.

User avatar
MEGAHYDER
Posts: 3915
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:13 am
Tag: CAPS LOCK CLUB CAPTAIN

Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby MEGAHYDER » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:21 pm

I want to fuck joe so badly right now

User avatar
RB
Posts: 10694
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:27 pm

Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby RB » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:56 pm

MEGAHYDER wrote:I want to fuck joe so badly right now

+1
A slight majority of a statistically worthless sample size agree.

User avatar
Savara
Posts: 2071
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:45 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby Savara » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:23 am


User avatar
Ekona
Posts: 16636
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:24 pm
Tag: Official member of the RB Anti Facist Party est. 2009
Location: Braintree, innit

Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby Ekona » Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:57 pm

Not often I agree with Piers Morgan despite him having an awesome surname, but...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-20838729
"Chav kids are like sand people. They're easily startled but they'll be back, and in greater numbers."

User avatar
RB
Posts: 10694
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:27 pm

Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby RB » Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:47 pm

The problem is, no matter what the intent, all banning anything does is ensure only criminals have it.
Banning handguns here has guaranteed that all of the tens of thousands of handguns are in the hands of criminals.
When I legally owned a handgun, I had to prove I was not mental in the eyes of at least three respected people and was subject to unannounced spot checks.
Now they are banned, I could get one for £250 in a nearby town with no questions asked.

I get that the senseless murder of children evokes strong emotions, it does in me too but knee jerk finger pointing at inanimate objects purely because it's an easy answer that helps you feel better that there is a solution if only "they" would do something is pointless and only punishes law abiding people who don't deserve it.
A slight majority of a statistically worthless sample size agree.

User avatar
Ekona
Posts: 16636
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:24 pm
Tag: Official member of the RB Anti Facist Party est. 2009
Location: Braintree, innit

Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby Ekona » Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:13 pm

Banning wouldn't necessarily work, that I get. What cannot be avoided here is the need for much, much stricter controls and certain types of weapon made illegal completely. Perhaps not handguns, but full auto or assault weapons certainly.
"Chav kids are like sand people. They're easily startled but they'll be back, and in greater numbers."

User avatar
RB
Posts: 10694
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:27 pm

Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby RB » Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:29 pm

I have no issue with that. I actually would have no issue with mine and everybody else's guns worldwide being kept in a locker at an approved gun club and never leaving club premises except to go to a competition or a hunt if you're into that kind of thing.

However, only the good guys would comply so it costs huge amounts of money and inconvenience for nothing.

The chances of someone intent on killing people being stopped from doing so by having to go to the shitty end of town to buy an illegal gun instead of walking to their gun cupboard is very low. The likes of Columbine have shown that these are planned acts not just done on a whim.

Perhaps I feel too strongly about one side of this to be properly objective as I do feel a bit like a parent who's being told they should have their children taken into care because a few people abuse their kids so nobody should be trusted to raise their own.
A slight majority of a statistically worthless sample size agree.

User avatar
Savara
Posts: 2071
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:45 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby Savara » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:39 pm

RB wrote:When I legally owned a handgun, I had to prove I was not mental in the eyes of at least three respected people and was subject to unannounced spot checks.
Now they are banned, I could get one for £250 in a nearby town with no questions asked.


Couldn't you get one for £250 (no questions asked) in the nearby town even more easily when they were legal to own?


Return to “Serious Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

cron