Gun Control and Rights

Discussion over more serious issues and topics
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RB
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Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby RB » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:56 pm

It was about the same by all accounts. Illegal gun use has increased since handguns were banned. All banning them did was rob law abiding shooters of fun and money as they were not compensated when their guns were taken and forced long standing businesses into bankruptcy.

Criminals still commit armed robbery and inner city gangs still shoot each other and innocent bystanders.

It will be inevitable that some mentally disturbed person will kill several people again and what will they ban then instead of addressing the cause instead of the act?
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Jezreel

Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby Jezreel » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:37 pm

I disagree that it was easier. How can it be?
If they're legal, going to buy an unregistered one from some crim would fill me/someone with a murderous intent with less trepidation than going to try and buy one now, being banned and illegal to hold, it must surely be more of a psychological block to at least a decent percentage of the non gun owning population that don't have easy access to the sort of people that could get hold of an illegal handgun for you?

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RB
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Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby RB » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:18 pm

For decent people, yes. I'd never think of buying an illegal gun for many reasons. Not least of which would be getting robbed and shot with the very gun I went to buy.

But the whole point is that decent law abiding people are not the ones who shoot a class full of kids. The sort of mentally damaged person who could do that isn't thinking about the consequences of mass murder let alone the consequences of buying and carrying an illegal firearm.

Similarly, when I legally owned my poor, old, now destroyed FN Five-seveN, I never once thought about pointing it at anyone let alone killing anyone.

Easy access to guns does not create easy access to the ability to look someone in the face and end their life then do it again. Nor does restricting access, prevent the determined.
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Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby Mr.Clark » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:47 pm

RB wrote:The problem is, no matter what the intent, all banning anything does is ensure only criminals have it.
I think the ban after Dunblane has proved that it actually works.

Sure, criminals still have guns, but criminals don't shoot up schools. Mentally disturbed people and people who have issues with the school do it.

It depends on what you want the ban to accomplish. If it's to make children in schools safer, I think that if you're being honest, you have to admit banning handguns does that.

I have no numbers to back it up, but I bet it reduces suicides, even if only slightly, because you don't have the ability to just "BANG"; you have to put a bit more thought into it. Which, if it's supposed to be the "cry for help", gives others more chance to react to it.

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Ekona
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Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby Ekona » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:01 pm

When was the last time here or in the US that a mass-murder was committed by a mentalist with an illegally-obtained gun? Genuine question, I have no idea of the answer.
"Chav kids are like sand people. They're easily startled but they'll be back, and in greater numbers."

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RB
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Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby RB » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:49 pm

Mr.Clark wrote:
RB wrote:The problem is, no matter what the intent, all banning anything does is ensure only criminals have it.
I think the ban after Dunblane has proved that it actually works.

How?
There are roughly 40 firearm murders per year in the UK which has been steadily rising with no change since law abiding people had their guns taken away.

It's like my magic rock that keeps me from slipping on mossy concrete and breaking my wrist. I only did it once but since getting the rock it hasn't happened again so the rock clearly works.

Ekona wrote:When was the last time here or in the US that a mass-murder was committed by a mentalist with an illegally-obtained gun? Genuine question, I have no idea of the answer.

No idea about the US but here there are roughly 40 illegal firearm related murders reported by the home office per year.

It could also be argued that Dunblane killings were carried out with illegal guns as members of Hamilton's gun club had warned police that he had become unstable and recommended his firearms be taken but they failed to act. There's also a lot of other non gun related things that seemingly went on with the police, Google Dunblane cover up if interested.
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Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby Mr.Clark » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:00 am

RB wrote:
Mr.Clark wrote:
RB wrote:The problem is, no matter what the intent, all banning anything does is ensure only criminals have it.
I think the ban after Dunblane has proved that it actually works.

How?
There are roughly 40 firearm murders per year in the UK which has been steadily rising with no change since law abiding people had their guns taken away.
40 per year in a country of 60+ million is actually pretty good. Compare the rising murder rate with the population size, see if there's any correlation.

And none of them have been in schools, which is the issue that prompted the question this time around. The only other "massacre" (don't know how they define that) was the Cumbria one, and he legally owned the guns he used during that (which is an argument for even tighter laws, IMO).

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RB
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Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby RB » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:13 am

One or two people in tens or hundreds of thousands during decades, misusing a privilege is no argument for punishing the rest.

You should go to your local gun club. They'll have a day or two each week where new people can come and try shooting. Actually meet the people you are tarring and try the hobby you are misunderstanding. It will cost you less than ten quid to see a different side and you may enjoy it a great deal.
A slight majority of a statistically worthless sample size agree.

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Sam
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Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby Sam » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:15 am

99% of bullets fired over here go into peoples' kneecaps.
:-)

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RB
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Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby RB » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:18 am

All illegal weapons too.
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Sam
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Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby Sam » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:20 am

It's in the news every day, nobody is bothered by it.

You know they done *something* to deserve it, lets be honest.
:-)

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RB
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Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby RB » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:32 am

So they have trials with an impartial jury? I'm all for criminals getting what they deserve but that kind of mindless mob justice is wrong.
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Sam
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Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby Sam » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:46 am

That would imply these people ever get caught.

Or that the person would ever tell.
:-)

Mr.Clark
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Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby Mr.Clark » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:17 am

RB wrote:One or two people in tens or hundreds of thousands during decades, misusing a privilege is no argument for punishing the rest.

You should go to your local gun club. They'll have a day or two each week where new people can come and try shooting. Actually meet the people you are tarring and try the hobby you are misunderstanding. It will cost you less than ten quid to see a different side and you may enjoy it a great deal.

I'd quite like to own, fly and shoot an Apache attack helicopter, but society bans them too. Should we legalise all dangerous things, just because they're fun?

(Also, don't tempt me, I bet I'd LOVE shooting :()


Sam wrote:99% of bullets fired over here go into peoples' kneecaps.

Your country is fucked in the head though.

Seriously. Stop shooting each other.

Jezreel

Re: Gun Control and Rights

Postby Jezreel » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:38 am



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