Serious News Thread

Discussion over more serious issues and topics
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RB
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Re: Serious News Thread

Postby RB » Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:53 pm

Are there doctors who solely work in private Bupa type hospitals? What kind of contract are they on?
A slight majority of a statistically worthless sample size agree.

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Ekona
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Re: Serious News Thread

Postby Ekona » Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:58 pm

Ones with telephone numbers for salaries.
"Chav kids are like sand people. They're easily startled but they'll be back, and in greater numbers."

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RB
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Re: Serious News Thread

Postby RB » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:53 pm

You say that but Bupa cover isn't that expensive and the facilities kick the NHS in the crotch so they can't be paying the doctors a fuck load or they wouldn't make money.
A slight majority of a statistically worthless sample size agree.

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Re: Serious News Thread

Postby Ekona » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:57 pm

We're with the Pru Vitality scheme, and I guess it does depend on what level of cover you have. I know ours isn't cheap, but it's worth every single penny.
"Chav kids are like sand people. They're easily startled but they'll be back, and in greater numbers."

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RB
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Re: Serious News Thread

Postby RB » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:23 pm

Mine's £62 per month, I'm sure the NHS part of my national insurance comes to more than that. That's for diagnosis and treatment so no NHS involvement at all.

They should scrap the NHS and give the national insurance money to Bupa.
A slight majority of a statistically worthless sample size agree.

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Re: Serious News Thread

Postby Dan » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:33 pm

If you work as a (technical term incoming) "ward bitch" in a private hospital you apparently can apparently earn~£42,000 to ~£65,000, including accommodation. Better than what is available in the NHS. However, there will be no opportunities for training or career progression, and the job would be pretty uninteresting. These jobs tend to be filled on a short-term basis, usually by doctors from abroad. If you develop a good private practice as a consultant (a lot of work, which only a minority of doctors achieve) you can earn considerably more, though this is becoming less attractive by the year for a variety of reasons.

Private insurance is nice for straightforward, planned stuff, but if you have a complex or emergency problem then you want to be in the NHS every time.

Okay, I'm totally lost now :lol:

I thought half the reason for the strikes was because doctors would be on less than they are now, because OT payments were becoming regular day payments. If there's actually very little OT, then where's the issue? Aside from not wanting to work weekends, that is.

Sorry for confusion - there's been a lot of explanations in the media using words like "overtime" that don't actually exist in medicine, which I've been mixing in and complicating things. I will explain from the beginning as things currently stand.
- All junior doctors are employed on a contract for 40 standard 9-5 hours per week, paid at their 'basic salary'.
- This is multiplied by a 'banding' depending on how many hours beyond this you work, and how unsocial they are (e.g. nights, weekends). For most people this will be 1.3-1.5.
- On top of this, most doctors will be doing lots of extra hours - e.g. coming in early and leaving late because it's necessary to safely care for their patients. These are not recognised or paid in any way unless the volume of work is so systematically extreme that you ask HR to monitor your working patterns (and then manage to avoid the various ways they try to circumvent this actually happening).

The new contract is intending to change to a system where your basic salary is topped up based on how many actual unsocial hours your rota is designed to include (not how many you actually work). This by itself is not a bad thing - it means pay will correlate more closely to workload. The bit everyone is furious about is that Saturday is to be considered a normal day - so no top up for any hours worked on this day. This will have the effect of firstly pay decreasing, and secondly a greater proportion of Saturday's being worked, as explained.

It's starting to sound very much like the catering industry, tbh. I used to do masses of free overtime, just to get the job done. I never quite realised how stupid that was at the time, and how I should've stood my ground and made them pay me more or just work to rule. Too young, too naive. What would happen if doctors started working to rule? I mean, not necessarily for the emergency stuff as people would just end up dying and no-one would do that, but what the day to day stuff? That would seem like an efficient way to get the point across.

The problem is there is little day-to-day stuff that people are staying late to sort out that would be safe to not do. I think work to rule is a far more dangerous form of industrial action for us than an all out strike.

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Re: Serious News Thread

Postby Mr.Clark » Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:43 am

First off, thanks for the previous graphs. Despite the questions, I'm still pro-NHS. Health insurance is great and everything. As long as you can afford it, and don't fall foul of their team of rules lawyers looking for any reason not to pay out, etc. So for people with chronic conditions etc, it's pretty much a no-go.

Dan wrote:The bit everyone is furious about is that Saturday is to be considered a normal day - so no top up for any hours worked on this day.

So Saturday isn't counted as "anti-social", even if you've worked Monday-Friday already? Fair do's, that's a bit of a pisser. If my job asked me to start doing regular work on Saturdays at 1 instead of the current 1.5x, I'd tell them to suck it.

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Re: Serious News Thread

Postby Polito45 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:05 pm

The left is having a surge in popularity here (Ireland) after one party (The Gangster party) ran the place off a cliff during the banking crisis,
and the next (The Nazi party) has been trying to sell (privatise) everything for the last 5 years. The Official left party (The Traitors party) has been holding their cock all the while as they did this.
Our health system is, and has been totally fucked for decades. Despite huge funding (we apparently pay the most for health in the EU) - we have some of the worst outcomes. With years long waiting lists and old people left on trolleys for days on end it's no surprise.
The new left (The I can't believe it's not the real Left party) are advocating an Irish NHS.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." — Aristotle

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Re: Serious News Thread

Postby Sam » Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:37 pm

I shall enlighten you all from my time working in what is called a Day Procedure Unit.

Although we are NHS, we have about 2 patients a week who are private patients. Either they pay it or their BUPA etc pays for it.

They see the consultant, he refers them and gets them put on as a private patient.

You get operated on/endoscopied by the same consultant
You have the same hospital as an NHS pleb
You have the same nurses
You have the same reception staff.

The only thing that is different in PP's on the NHS is the fact that your consultation with your consultant, is you see them quicker, so you get referred like a week quicker.

Some places can be weeks to see a GP so going to see a consultant privately can save you a little bit of time, but at the end of the day you still end up on the same NHS waiting list to have a procedure privately carried out by someone who was going to do it for his NHS salary anyhow.
:-)

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Re: Serious News Thread

Postby keasy » Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:37 am

Dan wrote:
The new contract is intending to change to a system where your basic salary is topped up based on how many actual unsocial hours your rota is designed to include (not how many you actually work).

Sounds almost like an exact recurrence of Agenda for Change for AHP's.

Nursing unions (Unison) rolled over and took it up the ass, OT's and PT's wrangled minimum Band 6 with most gaining Band 7.
I'd hate to see any physician embroiled in such a shit deal and as such I'm on the side of the juniors down south.

The conservatwats are slowly introducing wage bill efficient measures to NHS England in order to make it even more attractive as a private investor proposition, that, (tinfoil hat perhaps) is IMHO the long term agenda behind the recent junior doc restructure.

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Re: Serious News Thread

Postby Dan » Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:10 pm

A year ago I would have called the 'Conservatives are setting the NHS up for privatisation' people tinfoil hatters. Now I genuinely believe it (and I voted for the fuckers - never again). There is no explanation for their current diabolical mismanagement of the NHS other than setting it up to fail, or sheer stupidity (and say what you like about their character, none of them are stupid).

Jezreel

Re: Serious News Thread

Postby Jezreel » Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:14 pm

RB wrote:Bupa cover isn't that expensive

RB wrote:Mine's £62 per month

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Are you fucking kidding?

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RB
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Re: Serious News Thread

Postby RB » Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:39 pm

My Sky costs more than that and if I get cancer, the dish repair man won't be any use.

I'd rather pay that and get immediate access to tests and the private wing of my local hospital than wait 3 months in pain for tests and diagnosis by which time it's too late like my mum did on the NHS.
Then get stuck on a ward with staff who were too busy to help a dying woman who couldn't stand get to the toilet in time.

£62 per month is fuck all.
A slight majority of a statistically worthless sample size agree.

Jezreel

Re: Serious News Thread

Postby Jezreel » Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:03 pm

Not everybody is well off. £62 is a lot of money.
Healthcare should be available to all, regardless of wealth. Shared social responsibility. I do hope you don't fall on hard times.

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RB
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Re: Serious News Thread

Postby RB » Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:18 pm

What I was originally saying is that the NHS section of national insurance is more than BUPA cover. I was wondering if there were totally private doctors and wether their contracts were comparable to NHS doctors.

If BUPA can provide high quality care for what I pay them, then why can't we give the national insurance to them instead of the NHS which seems to be a total clusterfuck from a customer's perspective, at least in rural England where I live.

I'm not saying good healthcare should only be available to those who can afford it. I'm saying if private companies can do more with less or the same money we give the NHS then we should give it to them instead of the NHS and everybody gets better healthcare.

Also, I came from hard times and I'm not going back no matter what.
A slight majority of a statistically worthless sample size agree.


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