Independence

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Jezreel

Re: Independence

Postby Jezreel » Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:45 pm

It's a joke. In my usual bad taste style.

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keasy
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Re: Independence

Postby keasy » Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:04 pm

Nah man, my little confused face was site guru's foo cough.

I was drunk last night and hadn't sussed out what foo cough meant so I posted for some reason my confusion.

It's a bit more obvious now mind you ! LOL

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keasy
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Re: Independence

Postby keasy » Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:17 pm

MEGAHYDER wrote:
keasy wrote:Half of Scotland's population (okay that's a vast exaggeration) are idiots who believe/believed voting yes meant you were no longer a protestant and that you love the pope.

I kid you not.
That is not a joke, I know one guy that prefers to wear England footy tops as he's British and by being British wearing a Scotland top is in breach of his Britishness, I shit you not. He's also a catholic (or cathlicks as he would say) hating bigot who as well as hating "cathlicks" thinks that black people all look alike and that these filthy Poles are stealing all our jobs. And he's just a mild example of the Orange fuckwits that blight my country.

I honestly believe that the majority of balanced rational folks voted yes with the no camp being scared into a no, having some misguided belief that to be protestant is to be British or they have money tied up in London.

This will come again in the next 15 years or so, you can't have 45% of your population unhappy at at a London-centric government.


I love you keas, but what you've said is what angers me most about the fucking NO camp.

You treat those who exercised their democratic right to vote YES with such disdain. It's childish and certainly not in keeping with the spirit of democracy. How dare you suggest that even one person who voted agaisnt you did so because they are stupid and easily swayed. So arrogant.

Months after the vote and the NO camp still can't accept the defeat for what it was - the voice of the people of Scotland speaking in resounding Voice they want to remain part of the UK.


Calm down dear,
I don't really think that all people who voted the opposite of me are stupid. Get a grip ffs ! :) ;)
But there's no denying some folks in the no camp were voting so because they're bigoted protestants that don't give a feck about the actual politics, I'm talking the Saltire burning halfwits that marched on George Square.

Don't you mean the YES camp that aren't accepting the resounding voice ;) Which they do, of course they do, they haven't suddenly raised an insurgency and started blowing shit up because it didn't go their way, which would suggest non acceptance a bit more than whatever it is (as you didn't post it) you see as demonstrating a non acceptance.

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Re: Independence

Postby Ekona » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:33 pm

There's also no denying that some people in the Yes camp were gullible idiots who swapped all of Salmond's ridiculous rhetoric, and desperately wanted a Braveheart-style revolution. I'm talking about those that vandalised the homes of people who dared to put a No poster in their windows.
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Re: Independence

Postby keasy » Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:06 am

Yup, there's no denying that at all. But that really is a thinly spread example.
There was very little in way of that example but it did warrant media attention, deservedly.

The irony is that the bigot Saltire burning brigade hardly made headlines, it was a later half news story, where as the anti NO idiocy was 1st tthree stories news...typical one sided BBC and it's so called impartiality ;)

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Re: Independence

Postby Joe » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:40 pm

*BUMP* :lol:

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Ekona
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Re: Independence

Postby Ekona » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:42 pm

And we're off again! :D

I can see why Wee Jimmy Krankie is pushing again, but nothing has changed. Let's assume she wins this time: There's still no plan for financial independence as she won't be allowed to keep the GBP and oil revenues have plummeted, and Scotland will not be allowed to freely stay in the EU as Spain will block it because of Catalonia. It's independence just for the sake of it.

Maybe it's the social circles I frequent on the internet, but there's an awful lot of people angry that WJK is focusing so much on this and not actually running Scotland, that there's serious deficiencies in things she has direct control over due to devolution. If she can't run a country with the help she has now, how can she run one all by herself?

She kept banging on in her speech earlier about the evil Tories pushing ahead to Brexit without a plan, but from where I sit she doesn't have much of a plan herself. Staying in the Single Market just isn't going to happen, period. It's unrealistic of her to think it ever was, and to think that Scotland will get a miraculous decision that the EU would even let them is just ridiculous. Most of the Scotland's trade is with the UK anyway, so why cut yourself off from a bigger market just to say you're free? Again, the financial argument makes no sense: Is she happier being ruled from Brussels than from Westminster?
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RB
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Re: Independence

Postby RB » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:55 pm

It just shows that nationalist parties are generally useless. I can't believe that Scots voted for the SNP. They must really hate the English. It's the same as people voting for UKIP. Behind their single minded policy, there's nothing.

I doubt very much that she'd win a referendum but then we all said that about Brexit. If Scotland does become independent, they are fucked as they don't qualify for EU membership, oil is overproduced and I can make my own shortbread.
A slight majority of a statistically worthless sample size agree.

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Re: Independence

Postby Mr.Clark » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:12 pm

I should have been a lawyer.

There are going to be some seriously rich lawyers getting seriously richer, very soon...

I suspect the point of this is - Scotland are fucked anyway.

If they wanted to remain in the EU? They can't.

If they wanted to rejoin? Looks like they won't be able to.

If they stay in the UK? They leave the EU.

If they independence? They leave the EU. But throw off the yoke of the bastard English. Potentially flushing their economy down the tank to do it, but hey, half the country thinks that we're doing that with Brexit anyway.

RB wrote:If Scotland does become independent, they are fucked as they don't qualify for EU membership, oil is overproduced and I can make my own shortbread.
Heh :lol:

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Ekona
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Re: Independence

Postby Ekona » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:33 pm

So it looks like the SNP don't actually want to be part of the EU, they just want full access to the single market. That does not seem unreasonable in theory, but how do they achieve that? They'll leave the EU with the rest of us, they won't have the GBP so will need another currency (likely the Euro seeing as how they don't have the funds nor background to start their own SP), they'll then have to agree to full freedom of movement plus ECJ plus all the other goodies that over a third of those that bothered to vote don't want, all of which separates them even further from their main trading partner.

In the meantime, the U.K. has sorted out it's own deal which happens to be pretty good with maybe a couple of minor concessions, and no longer has to subsidise Scotland. The SNP now have to fill the black hole in their budgets and start charging for prescriptions and university etc, all the while praying for oil prices to rise again.

Nicola Sturgeon is either dragging Scotland to the dark ages, or she's going to have to perform a monumental climbdown at some point.
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RB
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Re: Independence

Postby RB » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:00 am

I think she's hoping for a general election that she'll lose.
A slight majority of a statistically worthless sample size agree.

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Ekona
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Re: Independence

Postby Ekona » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:26 am

As someone pointed out to me earlier, she doesn't even have a majority rule in Holyrood, so really has no mandate at all.
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Re: Independence

Postby siteguru » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:43 am

That's only because of the way the Scottish electoral system is setup ... constituency MSPs based on 1st past the post, then List MSPs based on percentage of votes cast. If it was all as per the UK system then they'd have a huge majority.

SNP are still by far the largest party in the Scottish parliament, and they only need a few supporters from another party (e.g. Greens) and they have a working majority.

The SNP have far more of a mandate in Scotland than the Tories do in the UK.

(PS - not an SNP supporter ... just correcting some facts). :)

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Re: Independence

Postby Ekona » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:56 am

Agreed, but you can only work with the system you've got. No majority = no mandate :mrgreen:

I actually think she's more dangerous than Salmond ever was: At least when he lost he had the grace to step down, now she's just pushing forward for independence again for literally no good reason. Let's assume she doesn't like the deal that May gets (a given, tbh), and so wants a vote between autumn '18 and spring '19. Let's say she wins, and Scotland gain independence. That will not happen overnight, indeed I suspect it'll take more than a year to accomplish, by which point the UK will already be past the two-year gap post A50 and definitely have left the EU. That'll put Scotland officially outside anyway, meaning the country will need to start right again in terms of access to it.

This is all assuming that the 64% of Remainers all happen to be Out voters too. If she fails to win an Out this time, it would appear the SNP are screwed big time. I still don't want Scotland to leave because I have good friends there and I think it would be awful for you guys to go through both EU & UK withdrawal at the same time, but a little bit of me partly hopes she gets her wish just so i can watch it fall apart on her watch.

I mean, I don't really, but you know what I mean. I genuinely believe Sturgeon is worse for Scotland than Le Pen is for France.
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Re: Independence

Postby Joe » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:03 pm

Ekona wrote:she's just pushing forward for independence again for literally no good reason

apart from Scotland's biggest trade partner is about to stab itself in the dick


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