Drupal

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Polito45
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Drupal

Postby Polito45 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:09 pm

Anyone use this? How common is it? I know it's a CMS and I believe it has a steep learning curve.
A company's website uses this as a framework. I can handle the HTML but with Drupal I'm looking up that camel's arse again. :?
What's the industry standard for content management systems in Europa?
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Re: Drupal

Postby Blak » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:18 pm

Briefly used it in anger at a prior gig before I left. Drupal is pervasive and probably your best bet if you company needs something big and flexible but doesn't have the money to build something bespoke from scratch (which is often a just as terrible idea). Lots of big names use it including NBC and ITV player.

It is an utter shit to use but everything else out there is even worse. This basically comes down to because it has to be all things to all people it ends up being a big blob of abstract stuff.

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Re: Drupal

Postby Joe » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:38 am

Drupal is a big fat whore who will bite your dick off and give you AIDS

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Re: Drupal

Postby Polito45 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:35 pm

:lol:

Yes, I had a sense it might be like that. I had toyed with the idea of learning it so I could manage the site myself,
but fuck that. I'm too old to learn shit I have no interest in.

One more question. I have been tasked with finding a company to manage the site... should I:

1. Look for a company who uses Drupal.

2. look for a company who will strip the site down and re-build it using their own CMS?
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Re: Drupal

Postby Joe » Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:01 pm

Will you still be acting as a point of contact for the client company? As in, if there are any problems with the website are you responsible for managing whichever company ends up looking after it?

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Re: Drupal

Postby Polito45 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:48 pm

I'll recommend the company. Set up a face to face with the MD et al. Over-see the change ... and then try to quietly slip away. :mrgreen:
But in my experience you never get to quietly slip away. The client company will request some alteration to the site from me. I end up designing it
and liaising with the managing company to impliment the alteration.

In the old days I'd just do it myself but I really don't want to catch an STD off Drupal.* :D



* I don't know how Drupal works.
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Re: Drupal

Postby Joe » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:43 pm

Might be worth suggesting a rebuild in something you're more familiar with then. Relying on a partner company to implement updates and fixes to a system you don't know very well means they could tell you it's going to be £XXXX when it could just be £XX, and it's then up to you to figure out if they're fleecing the client company or not.

Also, giving work to Drupal developers just means you're prolonging the life of a hateful shite of a CMS that should have been killed off years ago.

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Re: Drupal

Postby Polito45 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:16 pm

Ok, thanks for the advice Joe. I'll suggest a re-build.
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Re: Drupal

Postby nomis » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:35 pm

Just to temper what Joe has said, and echo Blak. I was a developer at a web agency and we used Drupal as our CMS of choice for about 3 years. We weren't specifically a Drupal shop, but we used it a lot.

Drupal is a developers CMS. It is incredibly powerful but it does require experience - which is why a lot of devs bounce off it - like Joe - because when you first use it and try to use your normal process, you find yourself fighting Drupal. Once you understand the Drupal way of doing things, it is uniquely flexible and powerful as a CMS.


I definitely wouldn't do #2 if you're going to ask them to rebuild it in another (or even worse, their own) CMS. If you must use a CMS, Drupal is the best going. If you suggest a rebuild, you give them a huge upfront cost for rebuilding their site in a different technology and yet still have the 3rd party dependency and ongoing maintenance costs. Where as if you keep the Drupal site you just have the maint costs. Not sure how the first option is meant to work out cheaper.

If you must go down a rebuild in a new CMS and the site is relatively simple, maybe consider one of the no-database CMSs doing the rounds. These save directly to text files and tend to provide but better performance. Something like http://getkirby.com/

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Re: Drupal

Postby Jezreel » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:20 am

Is this like Microsoft frontpage?

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Re: Drupal

Postby Polito45 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:17 pm

No Jez, Frontpage would be a website editor like Dreamweaver.
Drupal is a content management system. So with Drupal you can create client editable pages,
so the client can change their blurbs or add/remove products etc. without any knowledge of HTML.
That's the theory but in my experience clients are afraid to use it in case they fuck up their own website,
They also might have to FTP images to the server which they're not comfortable with...
so they get someone like me to do it. :mrgreen:

Thanks for that nomis.
Yeah, it had been in the back of my mind that if they went with some company's in-house CMS then they would be tied to that and them.
They could easily end up back at square 1, or worse if that company went bang. Shit, I'll have to give it some more thought.
I have till Wed to come up with a solution... no pressure. :roll:
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Re: Drupal

Postby Joe » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:12 pm

Ok nomis is sort of right, Drupal is powerful once you get the hang of how it works.

Maybe I just had a bad client experience where one minor change brought an entire site down because we forgot about the fucking stupid cache feature. But don't let that put you off. I'm just super bitter.

Jezreel

Re: Drupal

Postby Jezreel » Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:14 pm

Riiiiight. I understand now.
Sounds good (if complicated)

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Re: Drupal

Postby Polito45 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:48 pm

Joe wrote:... one minor change brought an entire site down because we forgot about the fucking stupid cache feature.


Jez wrote:Sounds good (if complicated)


This is why I'm reluctant to take on editing the site myself.
The irony is that nobody in the client company uses the Drupal features to edit pages,
so it's essentially redundant. They ask me to add/remove content which is no problem,
but when they ask me to change the format/layout on a page I run into Drupal.

I could change format/layout on a page easily with an editor or even fucking notepad,
but I'm afraid Drupal would get snotty, give me a sexually transmitted disease and take the site off-line,
which would be an unmitigated disaster.

Basically, it would have been a lot better if the site had been built using pure HTML + CSS to begin with ... and fuck Drupal. :roll:

Anyway, thanks guys. I think I know where I stand now. I'll find 3 companies with a local office who have a "Drupal guy".
I'll make contact, try to get an idea of pricing from each and present my recommendations to the client company's MD et al on Wed.
Then I'll fucking run away and hide... I've got shelves to build! :mrgreen:
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." — Aristotle

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Re: Drupal

Postby nomis » Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:51 pm

Joe wrote:Ok nomis is sort of right, Drupal is powerful once you get the hang of how it works.

Maybe I just had a bad client experience where one minor change brought an entire site down because we forgot about the fucking stupid cache feature. But don't let that put you off. I'm just super bitter.



Yeah, I can totally relate. The first project or two I did in Drupal, I was cursing it's name. Once you understand the hook system, and theming system and the module ecosystem it really turns around.

So for the above reasons it's really important to find a good Drupal shop, or a Drupal developer to work with.

Tips for finding the better devs:

1. Ask them for their Drupal.org username(s) - you can if and how they contribute to Drupal. Better devs will be at the very least reporting bugs, and better yet contributing patches and maintaining modules.
2. Ask them what (if any) modules they maintain/created on Drupal.org - as with #1 this shows how involved they are and their experience level.
3. Ask about their deployment process. Look for people using Drush and Drush Make and maybe even Aegir. These are automated tools for deploying Drupal sites that reduce the chance of human error. Be wary of people who deploy using FTP.


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